In the second part of Boardroom in the Basement podcast series “ChatGPT, AI, Humans – Oh My!”, the discussion continues on the impact of AI and other emerging technologies on society, the workforce, and our daily lives. The speakers focus on the ethical concerns, potential benefits, and challenges posed by AI adoption. They highlight the importance of fostering collaboration between humans and AI, addressing potential job displacement, and ensuring responsible AI development and deployment. Additionally, the conversation touches upon the significance of education, regulation, and public-private partnerships to build a future where AI and humans coexist harmoniously.
Transcript
You know, I think what could be maybe, and again, thinking, trying to be like upside, potential, right?
Taylor Lowe:Of where AI could help us here, I think folks would, where, you know, there's so many diametrically opposed positions
Taylor Lowe:I feel like that's a, that's a, that's a condition that most people feel.
Taylor Lowe:You know, the outcome should be the same in terms of like, homelessness is a problem, right?
Taylor Lowe:Like, we don't want people to have to suffer from homelessness.
Brett Hale:Um, I, I'm gonna push back on that.
Brett Hale:I have heard people say, I don't care if they're homeless, I just don't wanna see 'em.
Brett Hale:Oh, and,
Taylor Lowe:and that's fine.
Taylor Lowe:So I, I, no.
Taylor Lowe:And so, and that's what I mean by that in terms of like the solution could
Brett Hale:be put 'em all in
Taylor Lowe:Texas, the motivation is totally different.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:But the outcome would be no homelessness.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:In your area, in your area.
Taylor Lowe:Whether, whether you don't.
Taylor Lowe:Taylor,
Ben Glathar:I, I hear what you're saying and I agree with you, right?
Ben Glathar:Whether the goal is no homelessness here
Taylor Lowe:exactly in my face.
Taylor Lowe:So, so I think with that, that being like the core driver, right?
Taylor Lowe:Like I don't want homelessness to be near me or for people like are at all right?
Taylor Lowe:You could then maybe train a bot, right?
Taylor Lowe:So Ben, if you're saying that data set doesn't exist, and, and I agree with you, I don't, I don't think there's something out there, I don't think
Taylor Lowe:But could you train a bot to do that?
Taylor Lowe:Could you, because cuz there are, there are, there are ways to look around and say, Hey, in, in communities who have seen improvements around
Brett Hale:Thanks for joining us on another episode of Boardroom in the Basement.
Brett Hale:We're gonna continue talking about AI today, hopefully from the positive side.
Brett Hale:If you like the show, please help us out, subscribe.
Brett Hale:We also love to hear from you.
Brett Hale:Feedback ideas are welcome at boardroom fm.
Brett Hale:Leave us a note or a voice message and stick around to the end of the show.
Brett Hale:We're gonna do a fun exercise where each of us choose a coalition meant to help us navigate a new world with AI involved.
Brett Hale:Otherwise.
Brett Hale:I'm Brett Hale, joined by Taylor.
Brett Hale:Mr.
Brett Hale:Sustainable Low.
Brett Hale:Love it.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Hi.
Brett Hale:And Ben taking the hard line.
Brett Hale:G Lather.
Brett Hale:Hey, everybody.
Brett Hale:Initial thoughts on, on, on ai, any, anything from the news that jump out to anybody that you want to start with?
Taylor Lowe:Nothing from the news, but I am curious and maybe Ben, uh, I'm thinking about our last episode.
Taylor Lowe:You were, I think you were.
Taylor Lowe:Like 70% pos on the positive to like, remember we did our like an anxious to like Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Opportunity.
Taylor Lowe:And you are our most optimistic.
Taylor Lowe:So I, I'm, I want you to answer that question and, and kind of start off with like what, what you hear in the news or
Taylor Lowe:Well, I have been,
Ben Glathar:um, layer
Brett Hale:in some anthropomorphism also.
Ben Glathar:I have been, uh, kind of just holding, uh, informal discussions with my friends and family and stuff mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:About ai.
Ben Glathar:And, and again, where I stay positive is, um, I, I don't know that I fully understand it, but I feel like the general public doesn't really.
Ben Glathar:Understand it.
Ben Glathar:Sure.
Ben Glathar:And they do.
Ben Glathar:And just like, and I, I was winking to Taylor when I was asking you about ai, and I'm like, wait, what do you mean it can't do it for you?
Ben Glathar:Because I feel like that's what I hear.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Everyone saying is, they're like, well, yeah, you could just go to like Chad, G B T and you're like a marketing professional now, right?
Ben Glathar:And I'm like, well, what are you talking, you know, like, you can ask it to help you, you know?
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And then, and then even, you know, and then I talk to people, oh yeah, my, my son told me his, his class and they're worried about this cheating.
Ben Glathar:And I'm like, man, there's been Cliff notes since the sixties.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Like you, you could always go to Google and, and ask it and then paraphrase things, right?
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:So I guess as I'm talking to people, I stay pretty high on the positive side of it.
Ben Glathar:Hmm.
Ben Glathar:And I feel like that the doomsday part, maybe not as far away as I wish it was, but.
Ben Glathar:I think it is far from being there.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And, and so like hours or what are you talking about?
Ben Glathar:Far years because, because our systems are not there yet.
Ben Glathar:And, and I'll give you, I'll give you an exa uh, uh, an exact example is the, and, and I learned this from doing a little bit of research about this.
Ben Glathar:They were talking about the, the age of our FAA system.
Ben Glathar:Yep.
Ben Glathar:And like the software that does or not, I don't know if it's f FAA that, you know, but I think that's the body.
Ben Glathar:The air traffic controller system Yep.
Ben Glathar:It's like 25 years old.
Ben Glathar:Yep.
Ben Glathar:Like it's, it's not anywhere near ready to take a leap to be able to like, put it all on one.
Ben Glathar:Page, have something, control it, have, have a, have a easy way to, to, to redirect.
Ben Glathar:You know, it, it's laborious still.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:You know, and, and, and, and they don't have a, a person.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Well, and again though, but you'd have to up, you know, there, there's so many things and, and I think are, anyway, so I'm still,
Ben Glathar:Seem like it's still a ways off, quite frankly.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:But I'm, no, I'm, I'm, I'm still very positive on it.
Ben Glathar:And, and I would say the more I've talked to people, the less understanding people have about it,
Brett Hale:that that's also what scares me.
Brett Hale:Right.
Brett Hale:Like, I totally ag I see your point and, and I agree with you, but I also then think.
Brett Hale:If people don't take this seriously right now, it, it has that much more chance of like, taking people by surprise.
Brett Hale:Like big,
Taylor Lowe:nasty, surprise, unintended consequences are, yeah.
Taylor Lowe:I mean, they're huge.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:People see, I think, I think it's, it's, it's easy.
Taylor Lowe:Maybe not easy.
Taylor Lowe:Maybe for Ben, it's easy, uh, like seeing the upside, right.
Taylor Lowe:And just being like, this is this opportunity.
Taylor Lowe:But I think the ones that get missed are like the scenarios you're not looking at.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:And you're like, oh shit, we never thought about that.
Taylor Lowe:And here it is.
Taylor Lowe:Um, yeah.
Taylor Lowe:So I don't know, have you, but like, are there positive things that you're hearing, reading Brett?
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Brett Hale:I mean, I, I think the first job, honestly, that this, this can actually displace, which is a
Brett Hale:Interesting.
Brett Hale:Say more.
Brett Hale:Um, At the end of the day, you know, the, our politicians are, are saying something in public and doing something
Brett Hale:Or, or, or represent their constituents.
Brett Hale:Um, and, you know, it's a, it's a mix of all the people out there.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:But I think, um, as AI gets, gets more per pervasive in the, in the community, all this stuff is gonna be very clear.
Brett Hale:Like, if you were to ask chat G B T, Hey, who should I vote for given this?
Brett Hale:Hmm.
Brett Hale:It might spit out an answer and you're like, Uhuh, you're wrong.
Brett Hale:Chat.
Brett Hale:G P t's gonna be like, oh yeah, well here's why.
Brett Hale:And you're gonna be like, oh, crap.
Brett Hale:Hmm.
Brett Hale:Maybe I am a liberal, maybe I am a conservative.
Brett Hale:I didn't know that.
Brett Hale:Interesting.
Brett Hale:Right.
Brett Hale:So, I, I think there's a lot of change like that that can happen, that, you know, if you think about the, the education side,
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:This actually gets people, man, this is just fraught with, with, with problems too.
Brett Hale:But yeah, it gets people in a state where they can read information that's based on fact and not opinion that's spread out online fully realizing that
Brett Hale:But, but I think it gets us a lot closer to, to being educated by facts and data versus, versus opinion.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:And I hate to, I feel like I'm like poo-pooing on our positive episode, but like the thing that I worry about, and
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:Or like, you know, I, I just think of.
Taylor Lowe:You know, there's a, a group of people out there, many people out there who would probably ask chat g p t that
Taylor Lowe:Or like, who's the supporters of this initiative?
Taylor Lowe:Or that, and it providing an answer that they don't like and just being like, nah, it's this, this chat bot's wrong.
Taylor Lowe:Let me go find it somewhere.
Taylor Lowe:Let me go ask somebody, uh, a different chatbot, like a different one, right?
Taylor Lowe:Like ho honestly, and I'm not, I'm not trying to go political on the show or anything like this, but like, imagine a
Taylor Lowe:Mm-hmm.
Taylor Lowe:Like, just think about that, right?
Taylor Lowe:They're not gonna go to open eyes.
Taylor Lowe:They're gonna be like, let me go use the true social bot.
Taylor Lowe:You know what I mean?
Taylor Lowe:And as that, you know, yeah.
Taylor Lowe:And who the hell knows how that's trained?
Taylor Lowe:Brett, you bought a bias last episode, so I'm, I'm gonna try to squash these thoughts for our happy episode, but that's what's coming up.
Ben Glathar:I, I, I agree with you what you said.
Ben Glathar:That is the scariest thing in the world to me, but it's a positive.
Ben Glathar:The the scariest thing in the world to me is when we start, you know, you, it, it can collect a lot of data and that's awesome, but when
Ben Glathar:Like, Hey, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna ask this question and I'm gonna go forth and do what it tells me to do.
Ben Glathar:I mean, we already get that all day, every day.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:From which whatever you use online is your voice back at you.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:I think we all know that.
Ben Glathar:And, and that's how, actually, how I see it.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:It's just a, it is gonna be another one of those tools and.
Ben Glathar:That, that's going to be your, quite frankly, your voice back at you.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And, and I would say the most information wins.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:I, I, I would challenge that though.
Brett Hale:Like I, I, I get what you're saying.
Brett Hale:There should be a whole lot more data that's like, just fact-based data taken in with this opinion.
Brett Hale:Right.
Brett Hale:And I think that's the positive side for me.
Brett Hale:Is that a news article right now, they take the data and they spin it, right.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:In in whatever way that makes their case.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Where, and what I've seen from chat G B T, and maybe we can do this live in a sec, but ask it a question and, and you can see it.
Brett Hale:Would I, if, if, if I had to guess, I'd say, who should I vote for in the Colorado Senate race?
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Um, if I just go ask that question right now, the answer for me is like, I'm not, not a, you know, in a position to put my
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:I would expect an answer like that.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Granted, that's chat G B T I think to your point, Taylor, if somebody else is building an AI out there, that's looks like chat, G B t mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Uh, they can certainly very easily make it for, for ne nefarious purposes, but mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:But I think that's the positive I'm trying to draw out right now is like there's, there should be a lot more data
Brett Hale:Um, Instead of just opinion that mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Has already been spun.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Taylor Lowe:So let me, let me build on the positive that kind of the positive political theme, if you will, Brett.
Taylor Lowe:And so I think about things like, um, Policy.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:So we, you know, and it's hard with politics, right?
Taylor Lowe:Because there's always different motivations and different drivers behind anything.
Taylor Lowe:But when you look at, uh, just like the, the broad concept of what policy is and like how it's built, um, it's
Taylor Lowe:Most of the time it's based on, you know, trends.
Taylor Lowe:Like, it's, it's a very analytical process.
Taylor Lowe:And I think the, the methods and techniques used for like driving an informing policy right now.
Taylor Lowe:Um, and, and it depends on like what sector you're in, what industry, blah, blah, blah.
Taylor Lowe:But like, um, from my personal experience and having gotten to work with it, like in the energy space, um, like it's slow.
Taylor Lowe:Like it's a lot of like, you know, backward looking.
Taylor Lowe:It's, um, you know, trying to see the trends and it's not always so clean.
Taylor Lowe:And so I think of a.
Taylor Lowe:An area that could, you know, really be served by a chat G p t like bot is, is helping kind of disseminate and, and gather that data.
Taylor Lowe:A lot of it, right?
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Um, find, you know, kind of where things are connected in ways that aren't inherently obvious.
Taylor Lowe:So it would take a lot of work, right?
Taylor Lowe:Like, oh, you know, you know, the, you know, population in this part of the country's been growing, so, you know, energy demand's going to, you
Taylor Lowe:or some things you maybe didn't consider that would actually change, you know, what would be a normal assumption or would break this model, right?
Taylor Lowe:And just seeing the things that aren't as intuitive and take a lot of kind of like human critical thought and, um, analysis
Taylor Lowe:It's like, where are we putting in so much analytical work that is.
Taylor Lowe:Pretty straightforward, but requires a ton of effort, right?
Taylor Lowe:To do it right.
Taylor Lowe:That's where bot is just like, Hey, yep, I've got the data.
Taylor Lowe:Um, I can do it way faster than you.
Taylor Lowe:And you're, it's gonna, it's gonna get you to the same result, like the same kind of outputs, um, but won't require as much, um, kind of
Brett Hale:rigor, if you will.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:And, and by the way, I can use a whole bunch of other data sets that you probably didn't even think of Exactly.
Brett Hale:Yeah,
Taylor Lowe:exactly.
Ben Glathar:What, what are, I don't agree with either of you at all.
Taylor Lowe:Oh, dang.
Taylor Lowe:All right.
Taylor Lowe:This episode has taken turn off
Ben Glathar:or turn.
Ben Glathar:I agree that well, so factually like, yes.
Ben Glathar:AI chat, G B t can analyze data quicker and look at more data quicker and stuff and, and help get to some of those things.
Ben Glathar:So yes, I agree with that, but I would say that policy and politics are, are rarely fact driven.
Ben Glathar:Right.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:And I would say that they are almost exclusively opinion.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:And, you know, and, and driven by and, and also ul alteri or ulterior motives.
Ben Glathar:Well, and, and, and also, you know, they, they change with what, with what's going on with the, the, the, the culture, the, the,
Ben Glathar:I'm not talking climate, you know.
Ben Glathar:Um, and, and I would say, you know, it's, it's one of these things like, you know, using energy, yeah.
Ben Glathar:When gas is super expensive, Then we become more open to, you know, going back and drilling more.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And, and so I, I don't think that that's fact, you know, I mean, I guess it's fact driven as far as, hey, the, the price is high, but, you know, I, I think
Ben Glathar:And, and same thing with politics and, and like, who you're gonna pick, right?
Ben Glathar:I mean, a lot of times also that is a, you know, I would say a lot of times there's not a right answer.
Ben Glathar:There's a, Hey, this is a problem that we have.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And there's more than one way to deal with that problem.
Ben Glathar:So somebody would say, you know, something like homelessness, right?
Ben Glathar:I mean, there, there's almost.
Ben Glathar:There, there's not a right answer, right?
Ben Glathar:I mean, I, I think everyone is, or, you know, so, uh, they've tried many, many things, you know, so, so one, one person would say, Hey,
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:So I, I would say that there's very little facts involved in politics and policy.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:So I, and I agree with you and, and I want to just distinguish, it's a hot topic,
Brett Hale:by the way.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:I'm like, chomping
Taylor Lowe:it a bit, so Really?
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:No, there's one, one statement.
Taylor Lowe:One statement, and, and it's, it's just to, to back that up in that policy creation is different from policy implementation.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:And, and that's just to say you can have the best, most sensible, most like, well founded idea for a policy in getting it implemented and passed and enacted.
Taylor Lowe:Totally different.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah, totally different.
Ben Glathar:I agree with Yeah, of course.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Brett Hale:And, and I think my point too, like obviously I think politicians create policy, they get just destroyed
Brett Hale:Um, they, they then they, their intent on voting others down if they're, they're popular, so.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:You don't even get it to like, fully implemented by the time it gets voted down and you're left in a weird half state.
Brett Hale:Um, you know, I think there's, it's a lot of problems with the political side of this, but I think the, the point I really want to make is if I
Brett Hale:I've put in like all my stuff.
Brett Hale:You've read all my, everything I have.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:I want to vote for this guy.
Brett Hale:I.
Brett Hale:Do they align with me?
Brett Hale:Like what, how, how much do they actually align?
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:And then if I had an output that, you know, cuz right now you can do that research.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:But I mean, if you were to do that for everybody you voted for, it would take, I mean, probably days.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Days and days.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:No,
Taylor Lowe:I mean, I've done that.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:Or like, I've taken the time to go through an entire ballot and the people on it and it's just like, okay, do what?
Taylor Lowe:Who do I actually want to?
Taylor Lowe:And it's,
Brett Hale:it's arduous.
Brett Hale:And so like the default is I, I have a default on my ballot.
Brett Hale:Yep.
Brett Hale:I'm sure each of us do.
Brett Hale:Right?
Brett Hale:Like we're going one side or the other.
Brett Hale:Um, I think having this information at the My Fingertips where I could say like, here are the actual places that don't align.
Brett Hale:And then I can make a decision of like, if that's a deal breaker, not a deal breaker.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Um, and I, and I think that puts more power back in our hands.
Brett Hale:I think once we started making those changes, the, I think policy then can be more fact driven.
Brett Hale:Like I, I can imagine if, if somebody right now said, used whatever AI systems say, here's how we solve homelessness,
Brett Hale:It doesn't matter if that's true or not.
Brett Hale:And I think this is your point, Ben, like if a liberal puts that over there, the conservative party's gonna be like, no, you're wrong.
Brett Hale:Vice versa.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:So, well,
Ben Glathar:I, I'll stop you there.
Ben Glathar:That my point was that I, I don't think that you can use to, to go back to the very beginning, I, I don't think that this goods to a
Ben Glathar:You're saying I think Chad G B T can help me with making more fact-based choices on this.
Ben Glathar:And that's where I disagree.
Ben Glathar:I don't think there is a fact.
Ben Glathar:Based choice.
Ben Glathar:I, I don't think you could say like, using the homelessness, I brought that up.
Ben Glathar:I don't think anybody can say, Hey, here's how to fix it.
Ben Glathar:I, I don't think any, the smartest people in the world, I, I don't think there's any study, any report, any,
Ben Glathar:So because that doesn't exist, how on earth do you find a factual way to fix homelessness?
Brett Hale:So, so you're saying the data set that AI would be trained on is non-existent, so how could they possibly solve the problem?
Brett Hale:Correct.
Brett Hale:Correct.
Ben Glathar:Gotcha.
Ben Glathar:Okay.
Ben Glathar:Yeah, and, and that, and, and I, and I guess, and, and same thing kind of with just all, you know, politics and policy stuff.
Ben Glathar:Like, I, I think a lot of this is, you know, it's, and, and I'm, I'm just saying I think it's opinion based.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Right.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And, and you know, even going into super controversial land, right?
Ben Glathar:I mean, you know, homelessness is one thing, but you know, you start looking, you know, social security, right?
Ben Glathar:And, or, or, you know, abortion or, or, or any of these super hot topic things.
Ben Glathar:They are all opinion based.
Ben Glathar:There, there is no, you know, I mean, you can mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:It, it's there, there is not a hardcore fact
Taylor Lowe:either way.
Taylor Lowe:You know what's interesting though?
Taylor Lowe:And, and you just said something that, Pop this into my, my brain.
Taylor Lowe:So I think about the, the homelessness, uh, issue.
Taylor Lowe:You know, I think what could be maybe, and again, thinking, trying to be like upside potential, right?
Taylor Lowe:Of where AI could help us here.
Taylor Lowe:I think folks would, where, you know, there's so many diametrically opposed positions on something like abortion when it comes to homelessness.
Taylor Lowe:I feel like that's a, that's a, that's a condition that most people feel, you know, the outcome should be the
Taylor Lowe:Like, we don't want people to have to suffer from homelessness.
Taylor Lowe:Um, I, I'm gonna
Brett Hale:push back on that.
Brett Hale:I have heard people say, I don't care if they're homeless, I just don't wanna see 'em.
Brett Hale:Oh,
Taylor Lowe:and, and that's fine.
Taylor Lowe:So I, I, no, and so, and that's what I mean by that in terms of like the solution could be
Brett Hale:put 'em all in Texas,
Taylor Lowe:the motivation is totally different.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:But the outcome would be no homelessness, right.
Taylor Lowe:In your area, in your area, whether, whether you don't, Taylor,
Ben Glathar:I, I hear what you're saying and I agree with you, right?
Ben Glathar:The goal is no homeless this
Taylor Lowe:here Exactly.
Taylor Lowe:In my face.
Taylor Lowe:So, so I think with that, that being like the core driver, right?
Taylor Lowe:Like I don't want homelessness to be near me or for people like are at all right?
Taylor Lowe:You could then maybe train a bot, right?
Taylor Lowe:So Ben, if you're saying that data set doesn't exist, and, and I agree with you, I don't, I don't think there's something out there.
Taylor Lowe:I don't think chat G P T would be able to effectively answer that.
Taylor Lowe:That question is how do we address this?
Taylor Lowe:G globally, nationally, however you want to phrase it, but could you train a bot to do that?
Taylor Lowe:Could you?
Taylor Lowe:Because cuz there are, there are, there are ways to look around and say, Hey, in, in communities who have seen improvements around the
Taylor Lowe:right And piece that together from around and, and I think this is a great opportunity to bring in like the global lens, right?
Taylor Lowe:Homelessness isn't just a thing that, you know, you're dealing with in your neighborhood here in America.
Taylor Lowe:Like, you know, there are people, I mean, Brett and I got a chance to go to South Africa last year and, you
Taylor Lowe:You know what I mean?
Taylor Lowe:Like mm-hmm.
Taylor Lowe:The biggest house.
Taylor Lowe:Exactly.
Taylor Lowe:And so it's like, how do you, how could you take, take all this information and these things that you know are, are, would be hard for a team or a group or
Taylor Lowe:Mm-hmm.
Taylor Lowe:You know, there's not a right answer.
Taylor Lowe:I agree.
Taylor Lowe:But here's an approach that we've used.
Taylor Lowe:All the data that exists everywhere to help inform and, and we, and we, we want to like try this and we've used AI to help build this.
Taylor Lowe:We've used AI to help, you know, make these connections.
Taylor Lowe:We've helped AI to, you know, disseminate things quickly.
Taylor Lowe:Um,
Brett Hale:and so, so here, let, let me, I think where you're headed is, but potentially what it does is by collecting
Brett Hale:Is, say in areas where homelessness is low mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:There's more investment in education there.
Brett Hale:It's a warmer climate there, you know, whatever the case may be.
Brett Hale:Absolutely.
Brett Hale:And, and, and can point those facts out to you.
Brett Hale:So then you can use those to try to come up with some, some plan to, to, uh, solve the unhoused situation.
Brett Hale:I think it's called these days.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Take that.
Taylor Lowe:I'm proud of you, Brad.
Taylor Lowe:Thank you.
Taylor Lowe:Thank you.
Taylor Lowe:But no, that's exactly what I'm getting at, right.
Taylor Lowe:Is.
Taylor Lowe:You know, to, I think about the organizations and the institutions that are, are built to, to really help address these issues, right?
Taylor Lowe:They're chronically underfunded, they're typically like nonprofit organizations.
Taylor Lowe:Um, you know, you can't really get government like, support, you know, the, the, you can, but right.
Taylor Lowe:Not to a, a sufficient level.
Taylor Lowe:And it's because it's, it is resources, it's time, it's energy, right?
Taylor Lowe:But an AI bot y you know, for intents and purposes, and, and, and in a very, very simplified way of thinking about it, right?
Taylor Lowe:It's, it's, it's free and a, it's free, free, free labor, free energy, you know, all that, that work and effort that you would need an army of people
Taylor Lowe:really build effective, um, You know, approach and methods to a, to a, to an issue that people are, again, centrally feel the same way about a thing.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:I think again, that's the core of it.
Taylor Lowe:And, and let's let a, a, a tool, a technology bot work its way to a solution without having to, um, you know, you can
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Well, I
Ben Glathar:I definitely think that the AI could help.
Ben Glathar:I just don't, and, and, and I'm, I'm not trying to, like, I'm, I'm just saying like, honestly, like I don't, I don't think that it
Ben Glathar:Be, and, and what also happens is because it can make a, it could make a recommendation, right.
Ben Glathar:But an easy recommendation.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:I can, I can tell you how to solve it.
Ben Glathar:Build houses for everybody.
Ben Glathar:I mean, We don't have money to do that, and that's not realistic and we can't keep it going.
Ben Glathar:But I mean, I'm just saying so, so you can have like an answer that solves it, but I'm, but to take, yeah.
Ben Glathar:I mean I, um, and, and yeah, I, I definitely think that it could help.
Ben Glathar:I'm, I'm just saying on, on the black or white.
Ben Glathar:True.
Ben Glathar:You know, almost like a true or false.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Can it do it?
Ben Glathar:And I'm just saying, I'm saying no.
Ben Glathar:But that's all.
Ben Glathar:I mean, I'm, I, and just coming back to the thing of like, you know, and, and then there I, I come back to, I would, I would've
Ben Glathar:I don't know the answer to mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Of, of a right or wrong answer.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Like how do we solve some of these very complex, big.
Ben Glathar:You know, really social issues.
Ben Glathar:Yep.
Ben Glathar:I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, and, and I don't think that AI can get to that.
Taylor Lowe:I'm wondering, question for both of you.
Taylor Lowe:What problems exists that, that we feel, everyone feels agrees is a problem, right?
Taylor Lowe:No matter your political affiliation, no matter your, um, cultural background and your heritage.
Taylor Lowe:Are there problems out there that you think people all feel kind of agree about that need to be fixed?
Taylor Lowe:Yes.
Taylor Lowe:And how, like what are those, and could AI help there?
Taylor Lowe:Like what, what, what are those problems?
Taylor Lowe:I'm, I'm curious,
Brett Hale:I wanna go back just a second, but to answer your question, the definition of the problem is important, right?
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Yes.
Brett Hale:So what is the problem we're trying to solve?
Brett Hale:Because when we say it's homelessness, Or immigrants.
Brett Hale:Part of the, the problem is that's not the problem, right?
Brett Hale:Like homeless people aren't the problem.
Brett Hale:Correct.
Brett Hale:So what is, what is the actual outcome?
Brett Hale:And I think that's where AI needs to be taught how to respond.
Brett Hale:It's like given constraints.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:I wanna solve the homelessness problem, but we can't afford to build, you know, the solution can't be building houses for everybody, right?
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:It could be part of it for sure, but there's just not enough money or, or the problem isn't just like, uh, setting the police after them every
Brett Hale:Right.
Taylor Lowe:Um, yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Honestly, what's the root cause, right?
Taylor Lowe:Which is there's not one thing even.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:And so it's, it's, it'd be an exercise of teaching it to address all the root causes of what leads people
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:So I see your point.
Taylor Lowe:Exactly, and I totally agree.
Taylor Lowe:It's, it's like, what is the problem we're trying to solve?
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:And it's not just one problem.
Taylor Lowe:No.
Taylor Lowe:It, it looks like the, the way we experience it, it feels like a problem.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:But it's actually multiple problems.
Brett Hale:Right.
Brett Hale:Because you, if like, homelessness could be drugs, right?
Brett Hale:Could be mental health.
Brett Hale:Yep.
Brett Hale:Could be, um, inflation.
Brett Hale:I mean, the list goes on and on.
Brett Hale:So if you were to say could, could be all of them.
Brett Hale:Could be.
Brett Hale:I mean, for sure it is.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Oh, I see what you're saying.
Brett Hale:One
Ben Glathar:person, I'm sorry.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:I, I, yeah.
Ben Glathar:I, I I mean it could be all those
Brett Hale:things in one, uh, during the pandemic.
Brett Hale:I betcha that's a very high possibility.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Um, but, but take that and then say, all right, now let's get focused.
Brett Hale:Instead of trying to make it a political, uh, broad issue, we're saying, how can we reduce the number of.
Brett Hale:Uh, people that are homeless due to inflation.
Brett Hale:Right?
Brett Hale:Let's, let's start with that population first, right?
Brett Hale:And then kind of break, try to keep breaking it down into that, that set of root problems, right?
Taylor Lowe:To start tackling.
Taylor Lowe:I think even one of the conditions that you could build into a tool like that are the current pol like political landscape
Taylor Lowe:So if, you know, um, you are restricted in some way, like through zoning, like if part of your solution is we're gonna build new housing, right?
Taylor Lowe:Um, you know, but you have zoning restrictions.
Taylor Lowe:You know, if, if you know what those are and what you could build and what you could do, and you could, uh, the AI bot could build
Taylor Lowe:This is the amount of investment you would need.
Taylor Lowe:Um, these, these are the type of, you know, uh, companies that are willing to con like, construct and build.
Taylor Lowe:Like, these are folks that are like contracting for these, this type of work.
Taylor Lowe:And it kind of just put, put like some bones around, uh, a plan.
Taylor Lowe:And then you, you kind of open that up and be like, okay, we don't need p politicians or politics or policy to get involved at all with the
Taylor Lowe:Uh, this type of plan, this type of, you know, execution model, you know, Are folks willing to come together and make this happen?
Taylor Lowe:And with, with, I think the main backing being, they're like, we've got a, a, a very trustworthy bot that has demonstrated that this is going to
Taylor Lowe:Right, right, right.
Taylor Lowe:And just to be like, this isn't, this isn't some, somebody's, this isn't a political platform somebody's thought about.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:In terms of like, you know, it's more opinion based then, right?
Taylor Lowe:It's just like, oh, you've, you can approach it a different couple different ways.
Taylor Lowe:No, we've put the most robust and intense form of analytics behind this to, to really increase the probability of making this outcome
Taylor Lowe:And if, if we've got folks that are willing to come in to, to do this, we think this outcome is likely right.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:So,
Ben Glathar:well, and I, I hate to be this guy again, but you used a word call, you said
Taylor Lowe:trustworthy bot.
Taylor Lowe:Okay.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:And I.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Which I, how,
Brett Hale:how are you So distrusting, but 70% happy for the positive outcomes.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:This is so weird.
Taylor Lowe:I was not expecting this.
Ben Glathar:I, I'm posi, I'm excited and happy for positive outcomes that what it can do to make our lives easier.
Ben Glathar:All right.
Ben Glathar:I'm challenging, like what it can, what it can do and be asked to do in a nonfactual.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:You know, zero in one world.
Ben Glathar:And, and I'm just saying, so like, again, you know, and, and I did, I keyed in then I'm like, you're, you know, a trustworthy bot.
Ben Glathar:Like what makes it a trustworthy bot?
Ben Glathar:Like, honestly, if you know, and, and, and you think about like, Putting information, you know, as it gathers information.
Ben Glathar:And again, I would say, and based on everything you said, the most information then wins.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:So if you're saying, you know, if, if you're making a statement of, hey, like it goes out and it finds all the information about,
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:It's going to be all the people mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:That have provided information on how to.
Ben Glathar:Overcome this homelessness problem everywhere.
Ben Glathar:And that's what it's going to use to get to a data set to make a recommendation on how to help.
Ben Glathar:That's
Brett Hale:not necessarily true though.
Brett Hale:And, and I think that's like where the AI technology is really shines is mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:It, it, it will take information in there mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:But it's also really good at taking all the facts that related or unrelated and using that to be able to generate some sort of response.
Brett Hale:Okay.
Brett Hale:So agree with what you're saying.
Brett Hale:Yeah, for sure.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Um, if you're asking it to make some sort of judgment call Yeah.
Brett Hale:Versus, versus help me understand what all the areas with high homeless rates have in common or mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Or things that they don't Yeah.
Brett Hale:Something like that.
Brett Hale:So, and I think that goes back to the problem definition piece, but
Ben Glathar:I, I agree with that and I, and I would say, and, and probably, you know, and, and then the, the fear is of course, and this is, you
Ben Glathar:it could easily get to this is then you start, when you start asking it to make, or, or how do you, how do you program it to make judgment calls?
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:I mean, that starts to get, that starts to get very scary.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Yep.
Ben Glathar:And that's where the whole beginning, like, and I, I feel like I took us down a deep rabbit hole, but I was just trying
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:And, and then I guess what I, and, and to say this out loud and think about a kind of funny, but a, a Netflix type of, uh, scenario.
Ben Glathar:And what I mean by that is like Netflix, you know, it goes through and you watch shows and it's like, Hey, here's other shows like this.
Ben Glathar:Let me make a recommendation on that.
Ben Glathar:So if you're thinking, Hey, can ai, um, You know, take, take, take my opinion.
Ben Glathar:You know, you, you use, you said this, you know, like it's, you've been my assistant for so long.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:And let me, let me take all these things and here's a, here's something else that I think you'll like about it.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Um, do I think it could do it in like a Netflix, you know, mu or video or, or maybe music suggested or
Ben Glathar:Yes.
Ben Glathar:I do think it could help make a suggestion, but to take it to the part of, Hey, I'm going to let it tell me who I should vote for and, and
Ben Glathar:You, you're
Brett Hale:saying, you, you're letting it make that decision.
Brett Hale:Is the terrifying part.
Brett Hale:Not, not using its output to like interpret in you, you
Taylor Lowe:like form a decision, but
Ben Glathar:to make it, you can, you can use it and have it be a tool.
Ben Glathar:You just, and, and again, I, I'll just go back to, and that's where I just raised my hand and I said, I disagreed where you,
Ben Glathar:And I think that would be great to, cuz it'll tell me.
Ben Glathar:And then, you know, and then, and then you brought up the thing that, you know, policy is, is done in factual and stuff.
Ben Glathar:And I was just saying I disagree that I don't think it can be that.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Cut and dry.
Ben Glathar:And I know I've taken us down a really deep rabbit hole, but just saying like that's um, can it be a tool that can help for that?
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:But I don't think it, I don't think it, and, and again, and I referenced, I would like to see what we can have it come up with.
Ben Glathar:Like, like figure out some opinions or, you know, some things that are, I, I guess some, some things that it's hard to get a factual answer on.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:And see what comes out.
Ben Glathar:So
Brett Hale:you would say, if, if this was the Netflix recommendation engine mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:You would never say, Hey, play the next show you think I'd like, because actually my kid just watched a bunch of cartoons on it and
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Gotcha.
Brett Hale:Alright.
Ben Glathar:Or well, or, or, or, and, and at the same time and, and kind of like what I, you know, oh man, I just shut up
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:I mean, and even with
Brett Hale:Netflix, I do like blue
Ben Glathar:though, honestly.
Ben Glathar:You, you go down a comedy road and then you, you know, I think I'm gonna watch this.
Ben Glathar:Oh man.
Ben Glathar:I've, I've heard a lot of people talk about this documentary, you know, that's like the polar opposite of a, of a, of a comedy, right?
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:So, Um, you know, things change, mood changes, and then also, you know, talking about like politics and or, or policy or, or just actually anything.
Ben Glathar:I mean it, how, how much what's going on in your world changes.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:And, and I, I totally view that as how can we use that to make my life easier, whether it's voting or, or whatever the case may be.
Brett Hale:Like, and I That's what you said, right?
Brett Hale:Like make, how can it help it make things easier?
Brett Hale:Yes.
Brett Hale:So that's, that's what I, when I'm talking about solving my problems, it's not making a decision for me for sure, but like
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Versus weeding through all the bs.
Brett Hale:It kind
Taylor Lowe:of brings up the question of, And, and, and we've been talking about it in, in, in these different contexts.
Taylor Lowe:And Brett, you just said it, how can it help me versus how can it help society?
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:Whereas like you, I think there's a lot of, that's a.
Taylor Lowe:Very
Brett Hale:different motivation,
Taylor Lowe:huh?
Taylor Lowe:Totally.
Taylor Lowe:Oh yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:And I think, and I think May, and I don't know if it's the right way to categorize it as like the, the danger, but like, because
Taylor Lowe:An algorithm like Instagram knows you better than, you know, you might know yourself and you can get lost in those
Taylor Lowe:And so when you were to, if you were to turn AI inward, right, like it's gonna help you and it's gonna, it's gonna feed onto your behaviors, your habits.
Taylor Lowe:I think generally it's how we feel about it.
Taylor Lowe:Cuz that's what's happening now, right?
Taylor Lowe:Whereas when you pivot that to here is an issue that's affecting millions of people in different ways with different
Taylor Lowe:And this gets into ethics, but it's like, how can you, how can you take that input and actually, you know, create some recommendations, some approaches
Taylor Lowe:Are you trying to do it for a certain group?
Taylor Lowe:Are you trying to, and, and so I'm, I'm in a, I'm in a loop there with like Earl Pickle.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah, that's a very pickle.
Taylor Lowe:Like,
Brett Hale:so let me, let me bring us back then to the positive sides and give Ben a chance to redeem himself,
Brett Hale:But honestly, what, what are some things you're excited about?
Brett Hale:I know you've mentioned some before.
Brett Hale:I think you mentioned one on the last show.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:I, um, now what, what I think some of the things I'm really excited for are to make some of the, um, you know, when it, when it
Ben Glathar:That are like, so, oh my gosh, mind numbing.
Ben Glathar:Can it, can it start to do some of those and automate some of those for you?
Ben Glathar:And, and that could be easy, you know, like that, that could be anything like just going through and, and, and, and we see some of this already,
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Can, can it help go through and, and assign some of those numbers correctly and, and go through quickly and, and do some of that fantastic.
Ben Glathar:Right.
Ben Glathar:Um, you know, from a business sense, right?
Ben Glathar:And, and they've been kind of using some of this for a while, like some of those chat bots and really, uh,
Ben Glathar:Hey, I, I need to return this item.
Ben Glathar:Tell me, give me a, a easy bullet point list of what to do, what do I need to do?
Ben Glathar:You know?
Ben Glathar:Right.
Ben Glathar:Simple things like that that I think most humans are.
Ben Glathar:Or most of us have, have experienced some level.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Humans.
Ben Glathar:Some, most of us have experienced something like that.
Ben Glathar:Fantastic.
Ben Glathar:Right.
Ben Glathar:That's, yeah.
Ben Glathar:But, um, man, and, and then, you know, and what's funny is, I'm gonna come back to this, but I feel like, and I, I use that to net to, to use the algorithm of,
Ben Glathar:Um, if I can trust it.
Ben Glathar:Sounds fan freaking.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:There are, there's so many different entertainment.
Ben Glathar:Oh my god.
Ben Glathar:Restaurant.
Ben Glathar:Like all these choices.
Ben Glathar:That's true.
Ben Glathar:So, and man, I don't know about you guys, but I mean, Netflix is pretty good.
Ben Glathar:Like, I mean I, you know, like, and I mentioned this earlier, right?
Ben Glathar:I mean, there's different moods, right?
Ben Glathar:So that, that can be hard.
Ben Glathar:Um, like, you know, for, for, but I mean, yeah, I mean, if, if there's something that you like, I mean, it, it gives you suggestion of, of,
Ben Glathar:I mean, it, it's better than 50%.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:So to, so to think about applying that to all, you know, heck vacation spots, right?
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:What to do on the weekend restaurant, you know, you just keep going.
Ben Glathar:Um, what, what new music to listen to.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And instead of just always having my same voice back at me, but kind of go through.
Ben Glathar:So, um, and I mean, I, you know, I, I think there's also, uh, you know, that, that's like some kind of practical
Brett Hale:things.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:I have to say this cuz I, you, you said to make your everyday life.
Brett Hale:It's like, wake up at five 30, have a beer, bleeeep, take a nap, eat it.
Brett Hale:Donut.
Brett Hale:Like, you're like, this is my best life.
Brett Hale:Thanks.
Brett Hale:Right.
Brett Hale:I mean, that's what the Facebook algorithm would give you, right?
Brett Hale:You'd be like, ah, this is great.
Brett Hale:Meanwhile, your wife's ready to divorce
Taylor Lowe:you.
Taylor Lowe:Oh my gosh.
Brett Hale:Oh my gosh.
Brett Hale:Think it, I, I mean, it it, it is funny to think about cuz, cuz now you're in a household and say it's just you and your, your wife or your partner
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:But, you know, meshing that with somebody else at the same time then becomes a problem.
Brett Hale:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brett Hale:So that then you need AI to say like, oh, and go, you know, interface with this other person's assistant so we can mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Make sure we're still talking at the end of the day,
Taylor Lowe:which is not something I feel is, or has ever been a focus of, you know, technology and social connection.
Taylor Lowe:Right, right.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:It's always been like, we want to me, me, me, we want to draw you in and if there are people around you, we only care about connecting you to them
Taylor Lowe:So that would, that's almost like new, new territory.
Taylor Lowe:I feel,
Brett Hale:you know, that could be a very easy chat g p t app as like, what are things I can do for my wife this week?
Taylor Lowe:It'd be an, it's an interesting thought for the application of ai, right?
Taylor Lowe:Where I think a lot of our discussion around this topic has been, you know, let's not lose humanity, you know, and as we're,
Taylor Lowe:Like there's probably ways that we can begin to integrate this.
Taylor Lowe:And honestly, you probably should cuz it's not going away.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:So instead of maybe fighting it or resisting it, it's, it's where you would really want to have some thought around how can this be
Brett Hale:With your, instead of pulling us apart, it's pushing
Taylor Lowe:us together.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah, exactly.
Taylor Lowe:Exactly.
Taylor Lowe:So
Ben Glathar:I'm gonna add another interesting, um, and, and I, well, and I don't know how you guys feel about this.
Ben Glathar:I'd love to get your opinions, but I was thinking also from a artistic point of view.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And, and I'm not very, I, I don't feel like I'm very creative or, or artistic at all a song.
Ben Glathar:Hey, I can, I can get to hear.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:I can't bring in.
Ben Glathar:Drums or piano or you know, I don't, whatever that would be.
Ben Glathar:Right.
Ben Glathar:I mean, you know, I see a huge benefit is that it could help open the cre creativity door for people.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:And let them, let them out and create more.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Which is ultimately adding, you know, more culture.
Ben Glathar:You know, it, it frees up a different part of your brain or stuff.
Ben Glathar:I, I think how, how awesome
Taylor Lowe:that could be.
Taylor Lowe:I think that's, I think that's one of the best positives you brought up.
Taylor Lowe:And, and I think it's so last show you brought up something similar, right?
Taylor Lowe:I think it was, it was the bear example you just said, you know, if I can draw that outline of a bear, but I can't do fur or can a do it, right?
Taylor Lowe:Mm-hmm.
Taylor Lowe:And I, and what we, what we, where we went was, oh, what's copyright law?
Taylor Lowe:Like, who does the art belong to?
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:And that's, that's like, I think the default place for people to go right now.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:But if you squash all that and just look at the shit, that person just became more creative.
Taylor Lowe:They were able to express themselves in a way without, you know, you know, that they're limited in some sense.
Taylor Lowe:It's not, it's actually facilitating.
Taylor Lowe:Something beautiful, something important to that person.
Taylor Lowe:Um, I think the other example you had was, Hey, if I can sing, but I can't play a damn instrument and I don't,
Taylor Lowe:If I can have AI help create the sound that I want, but I provide the voice, like that's a, that's a cool thing.
Taylor Lowe:That's a awesome idea.
Taylor Lowe:Um, and, and why wouldn't you want someone to be able to express themself that way?
Taylor Lowe:Um, knowing, I mean, copyright and legal things, that, that's gonna be there all the time.
Taylor Lowe:But like at the core of it is, is can you be more expressive?
Taylor Lowe:Can you be more of you with some help?
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:So I think that's a great, great point, Ben.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:And I, I'm sorry I played both sides of that.
Ben Glathar:I played, played it as a negative last time, but, but I, today I'm more bringing about like just the person.
Ben Glathar:Yeah, yeah.
Ben Glathar:Like just to be more
Brett Hale:connected.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:So I'm gonna attack it from a slightly different lens.
Brett Hale:Given we just said AI pulling people apart versus pushing together, and this feels.
Brett Hale:Uh, like a moment where you're actually starting to pull people apart again.
Brett Hale:And I'm not saying it's not a good thing, cuz I think it's fantastic, but now I'm like, Hey, I, I have, I'm sitting in my basement
Brett Hale:AI one, AI two, and AI three.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:And, and now we're gonna have a podcast and I can do what I want versus maybe reaching out to somebody that I, that I know mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Wants to podcast or has done it before and saying, Hey, I was thinking about how to do this.
Brett Hale:Can mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Can we connect over podcasting?
Brett Hale:So it, you, I mean this is to truly like a, a weird yin and yang moment in my head where it's like positive as just as much, I don't know if
Brett Hale:It's
Taylor Lowe:a double edged sword.
Taylor Lowe:Well, I'd like to ask
Ben Glathar:Taylor.
Ben Glathar:So Ta I mean, yeah.
Ben Glathar:Taylor, don't you think.
Ben Glathar:Oh, I, I was putting words in your mouth leading the witness.
Ben Glathar:I totally was.
Ben Glathar:I totally was.
Ben Glathar:You know, Taylor, I mean, you know, I would wonder, tell me about your experience with, and, and just because you said you use Instagram mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:I mean, I would like to hear about your experience with Instagram and how that either does connect you or keeps you away from people.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:So I view it as something that honestly keeps me away from people.
Taylor Lowe:I use it as a thing kind of like when I'm bored.
Taylor Lowe:Um, I, I love Star Wars and I love fitness.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:And so, like, it pushes me that stuff constantly.
Taylor Lowe:But when I'm, when I'm in the gram, I'm not really.
Taylor Lowe:The way I use it is not to be like, I, I want to connect with this fitness coach.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:Like, or I'm really curious about what, like, you know, are some new techniques I can use in the gym.
Taylor Lowe:Um, I'm, I'm, you know, somewhat, I care about like, the latest news and developments for Star Wars, right?
Taylor Lowe:They're making movies and shows all the times, but I, I can get that anywhere, right?
Taylor Lowe:So, and, and I, I don't use that to like reach out or connect with other people.
Taylor Lowe:It's, it's a place that I go to kind of like escape and just like hide away.
Taylor Lowe:Um, I, and I know that's, so that's my experience and I do want to like, acknowledge the, the flip side of it.
Taylor Lowe:And my partner's really good about this.
Taylor Lowe:She uses it for the exact opposite.
Taylor Lowe:She's just like, um, I have so many friends that don't live where I'm at, but are doing really cool things.
Taylor Lowe:And I share that on Instagram.
Taylor Lowe:And she uses it as a communication tool.
Taylor Lowe:So like, she's got a friend that's opening a restaurant across the country, she's reaching out and says, Hey, this is awesome.
Taylor Lowe:This is cool.
Taylor Lowe:See that you're doing this.
Taylor Lowe:Um, and then, you know, they connect that way and they're keeping up with each other.
Taylor Lowe:And, and so it is facilitating the connection.
Taylor Lowe:Is it gonna push or is it gonna pull?
Taylor Lowe:It's gonna do both.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:Um, and, and how, and, and, and like, why are gonna be different, right?
Taylor Lowe:Um, so I, it is, it's weird, right?
Taylor Lowe:There's no, there's no perfect way, I think to really do this.
Taylor Lowe:Like the full circle back to unintended consequences.
Taylor Lowe:Um, those are gonna be a thing, right?
Taylor Lowe:You're gonna have the best intentions maybe, uh, with pushing out something like a, like a chat, G p T will it actually, um, manifest your intentions?
Taylor Lowe:And even if it does, what, what are the other things that could happen
Ben Glathar:really is up to how the individual, mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Interfaces with
Taylor Lowe:it Yep.
Ben Glathar:And uses it to, to tell whe whether it's going to be, um, you know, whether it's gonna connect you
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And, and quite frankly, not necessarily those things are bad.
Ben Glathar:E even, you know, if, if you have a healthy relationship with people and you're, you're out, you know, to, to pull away for an hour isn't bad.
Ben Glathar:Yeah, true.
Ben Glathar:So true.
Ben Glathar:And, and yeah, there can be true too, right?
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:I mean, if you're kind of a, an introverted person at work and then you get done with work and you use your term that I have never heard
Brett Hale:Oh, poor grandpa.
Ben Glathar:Sorry, then.
Taylor Lowe:Oh my goodness.
Taylor Lowe:Then,
Ben Glathar:uh, this shit was explicit.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Two e's on this one,
Ben Glathar:but, uh, but no, I mean, right.
Ben Glathar:I mean, you know, seriously, like you, you can, so it goes either
Taylor Lowe:way.
Taylor Lowe:It does.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:And, and honestly it's never gonna be the same even cuz I'll, and, and what, I'll just fold into my little, little spiel.
Taylor Lowe:There was my partner, she does use to connect, but all too often she'll be on their way longer than she
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:So it, again, there's no, it's never gonna be just one thing or one way.
Taylor Lowe:Brett, what is your,
Ben Glathar:uh, what positives do you see from
Brett Hale:AI?
Brett Hale:Positives?
Brett Hale:I, I'm really excited about the educational side of this.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Um, to be perfectly honest, cuz I think.
Brett Hale:Ex
Ben Glathar:expand?
Ben Glathar:What do you mean?
Ben Glathar:Like to teach us stuff?
Ben Glathar:Or, or like, or university, like, I don't, I don't
Brett Hale:know what you mean.
Brett Hale:All of the above.
Brett Hale:And, and so I can tell you a little bit about myself is, you know, love DIY stuff.
Brett Hale:I used to go buy manuals for cars or wherever I could find information and go find those to figure out how to mess around with stuff.
Brett Hale:One of the things very early on, I liked messing around with electronics, taking stuff apart, putting it together.
Brett Hale:But there wasn't really a good source of, of diy just playing around with electronics, go to the library.
Brett Hale:I could read stuff, but it was really hard to find.
Brett Hale:So Google was a godsend for me to find information.
Brett Hale:Uh, kind of allowed me to do a lot of different things and innovate with electronics, you know, just, and I
Brett Hale:I can see it.
Brett Hale:I'm a visual person.
Brett Hale:I can copy it.
Brett Hale:I can do whatever I want, if I want to do it.
Brett Hale:Like that's how I learn.
Brett Hale:And the public school system isn't really set up to, to be optimized to, to let everybody learn the way that they're Totally, they need to be learning.
Brett Hale:Totally.
Brett Hale:And I think AI can really help that side of things.
Brett Hale:Hmm.
Brett Hale:By being able to put, maybe pull together multiple types of curriculum mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Based on the student, the student's behaviors, the students like feedback.
Brett Hale:They're given the systems of what really makes them learn.
Brett Hale:And so, you know, maybe a, a classroom becomes less about, here's here's a math classroom, here's the specific curriculum.
Brett Hale:But you're in here with, with other students learning similar things, but you all have a more tailored learning experience that's gonna really.
Brett Hale:Like, be what you want it to be.
Brett Hale:So some kids will be farther along, some kids won't, that's fine.
Brett Hale:It could be English, all of it.
Brett Hale:And uh, that's exciting to me.
Brett Hale:Like I honestly think that could be a, a huge game changer for schools if, if done properly.
Brett Hale:Hmm.
Brett Hale:That's a really
Taylor Lowe:good one.
Taylor Lowe:I like that one a lot.
Taylor Lowe:Thank you.
Brett Hale:Yeah, I can give you a great, uh, just personal story around that too.
Brett Hale:It's, uh, my son has a, a gene disorder.
Brett Hale:Um, it's a gene mutation actually, and it manifests as chronic pain.
Brett Hale:He's been going through this for, for many years, and the first several years going to doctors, they had no idea what was going on.
Brett Hale:It is such a rare gene mutation that very few people had even studied about it, for example.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Um, so I can imagine a world where, you know, the first doctor's visit, if you know all the symptoms, even though it's rare, it's
Brett Hale:In a very logical way that says it's not any of these, but that leaves this really rare one.
Brett Hale:I don't know enough about that.
Brett Hale:So I'm gonna send them to somebody that does.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:So to that could have probably shortened his.
Brett Hale:His diagnosis from one year, two years, whatever it was.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:To one visit.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Which is awesome.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:That's a
Taylor Lowe:really good point too, because the, the way, and I am not at all a doctor, um, but from Doctor of Love, that's different.
Taylor Lowe:Okay.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:We're gonna keep this show explicit.
Taylor Lowe:We are, we can dive deeper, but, uh, you know, from the folks that I do know who are, are doctors in, in the medical fields,
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:It's like we're gonna start you at this dosage and on this combination of meds, see how you do.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Um, and we'll tweak it from there.
Taylor Lowe:Like we'll go up, we'll go down, but it does not like it's a science, but it's less of a, of a like defined science.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Everyone's different.
Taylor Lowe:And so again, I think your point is solid where it's like you could probably have a tool or something in this sphere that says, Of all the cases we've
Taylor Lowe:symptoms, whatever it is, um, these are like the things that, the medications, the dosages that have worked best or where to start, like taking all these
Taylor Lowe:Condition.
Taylor Lowe:This is what this is, this is it.
Taylor Lowe:Start, this is what works.
Taylor Lowe:Or start here.
Taylor Lowe:Start Exactly.
Taylor Lowe:Or at least start here.
Taylor Lowe:You get a better starting point at that
Brett Hale:point.
Brett Hale:So my, my son has, we still don't have like a solid medicine regimen that that helps his pain enough.
Brett Hale:And he's very sensitive to medicine changes.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:So we have like these long periods where we have to ramp it up slowly, and then if that doesn't work, um, then we have to, to wean him off really slowly.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:And so it's been years of medicine changes and so For sure that could, that could help for sure.
Brett Hale:The, the last show we talked about, uh, picking a coalition to help us navigate, um, this world in ai in response to the
Brett Hale:Uh, productionization of AI models to, to get some safeguards in place.
Brett Hale:So we thought it would be good to, to pick a coalition and, uh, to help us navigate through these crazy times.
Brett Hale:So, uh, Taylor, would you like to, to kick
Taylor Lowe:us off here?
Taylor Lowe:I'd be, I'd be happy to.
Taylor Lowe:I started trying to think of like, who are famous figures.
Taylor Lowe:I know people who I think like represent values that, um, I could bring into the coalition had to squash that quick because you just don't know the people
Taylor Lowe:So I stepped back and I was like, all right, well let's just stick with the values.
Taylor Lowe:Like, let's just stick with who do I, like, what do I want represented on this coalition?
Taylor Lowe:Um, I have five people.
Taylor Lowe:I have five representatives.
Taylor Lowe:Okay.
Taylor Lowe:And the best way that I could do this for our listeners to like chime in, like, like really connect maybe, um, it, and it's not for all
Taylor Lowe:That kind of embody that representation.
Taylor Lowe:Um, again, not all, so it'll be a mix of real people and fake people.
Taylor Lowe:But here, here's the coalition.
Taylor Lowe:Um, so the first one was I wanted the youngest developer at open ai.
Taylor Lowe:Um, and I wanted that person to bring in the angles of, okay, what is, what is actually possible, right?
Taylor Lowe:If chat g p t is kind of the leading edge of the technology, I want someone on the col coalition who actually
Brett Hale:there.
Brett Hale:Yo youngest in terms of age or experience?
Brett Hale:Age,
Taylor Lowe:okay.
Taylor Lowe:And, and the reason for that, that's the other kind of angle I had with this role is I wanted someone with a generational aspect of.
Taylor Lowe:Hey, there's lots of life ahead of me.
Taylor Lowe:I want to make sure that it's gonna be good.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:So that, that was the first kind of thought that came to mind.
Taylor Lowe:Person number two, um, was a global economic, uh, economist, uh, global economist.
Taylor Lowe:Um, I wanted that person to bring the angle of this is how the world works right now, right?
Taylor Lowe:Like, okay, if we have someone, if the chat G p t developer is gonna be, here's what's possible.
Taylor Lowe:We need to know what's possible today, right?
Taylor Lowe:In the world.
Taylor Lowe:And kind of how it's heading and how it's put together.
Taylor Lowe:Um, and not just from like an American perspective, you know, like a truly global economist.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:The person I think about this, um, only Brett's gonna be able to appreciate this, and he's a real person.
Taylor Lowe:But I thought of our economics professor.
Taylor Lowe:Dr.
Taylor Lowe:Zoo, Keno.
Taylor Lowe:When Brett and I were getting our MBAs together, and he was, he was just a super cool guy.
Taylor Lowe:He was very down to earth, um, very wise about how things worked around the world.
Taylor Lowe:But you can just tell the dude he is not like, He's not like a, a money hungry guy.
Taylor Lowe:Like he's teaching a, a college, you know, Saturday afternoon class.
Taylor Lowe:Um, you know, I I, I'm not sure if he was even retired or not, or you know, but you can just tell he is just a chill dude that knows
Taylor Lowe:So he was my, my second one as like the global economist three, um, was a social psychologist or philosopher.
Taylor Lowe:Um, this is a real person.
Taylor Lowe:Um, his name is Jonathan Ha.
Taylor Lowe:Um, he, um, has, I actually got introduced to him also through school, some of his work.
Taylor Lowe:Um, but he, uh, does a lot of work around like what makes people happy.
Taylor Lowe:Um, he's also done some work around the tragedy of commons.
Taylor Lowe:Uh, you know, something that Brett and I have brought, brought up on the show many times on, you know, how do people with different
Taylor Lowe:So I thought he was a great one.
Taylor Lowe:Uh, four criminal psychologist.
Taylor Lowe:Oh, interesting.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah, I wanted to, so it, I have here on the list it's criminal psychologist or cyber criminal slash hacker.
Taylor Lowe:I, I still think I lean towards the criminal psychologist, um, just because I want someone who can essentially bring the bad guy angle, right?
Taylor Lowe:Like, so even with the chat G P T developer being like, this is what's possible.
Taylor Lowe:I want someone on the, on the committee to be like, this is how it, like, okay, this is really what can be done with it.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:The person I thought for that was Clarice Starling from Silence of the Lambs.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Very cool.
Taylor Lowe:You know, and she was an FBI agent, so not necessarily a psychologist, but that vibe, you know, where she's just me, Taylor.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:And
Brett Hale:the Lamb's still crying.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Um, she, she was a, yeah, she was, you know, like she know she gets it, right.
Taylor Lowe:She, she isn't a criminal, but she knows the mind of one.
Taylor Lowe:Right?
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Um, and then my last person on the committee was someone who would, BR was an international human right worker.
Taylor Lowe:And I don't actually have a, um, Like a, uh, a person for this, like a, a a TV example or anything like that.
Taylor Lowe:But I wanted someone that could really bring, um, the perspective of what is, is as best as possible, the common man, woman from around the world, right?
Taylor Lowe:Like, not just the American perspective, but hey, here are the things that really you see in the, in human society, like around the world, right?
Taylor Lowe:Just like what makes people, people.
Taylor Lowe:So I wanted that on the committee.
Taylor Lowe:Um, love it.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Few, couple things.
Taylor Lowe:Few last things.
Taylor Lowe:I thought a lot about this.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah, yeah.
Taylor Lowe:But I have some disqualifiers, um, and conditions for being on the committee.
Taylor Lowe:So the first is no overlapping demographics, meaning none of the five can.
Taylor Lowe:And, and, and I say this like I've picked some people, but really the idea is I want the themes of those people on the committee.
Taylor Lowe:So like, you know, you know, it doesn't have to be them, but I wanted the, their themes.
Taylor Lowe:Um, so no overlapping demographics being like, There can be no overlap or same race, heritage, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, home country.
Taylor Lowe:And it sounds extreme, but like five people around the world like to fit in these.
Taylor Lowe:Like, it's, it's my coalition and that's how it's gotta be.
Taylor Lowe:Super diverse crew.
Taylor Lowe:Absolutely.
Taylor Lowe:And then I'll also, nobody from the top 2% of wealth holders and no political figures and that, that is my committee and how I would structure it.
Brett Hale:Interesting.
Brett Hale:All right.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:What, um, why, what was the, the thought behind no political figures as a disqualifier Couldn't
Taylor Lowe:trust them.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:I can't trust, I mean, even like the, the, the politicians that you feel really get it and connect, you connect
Taylor Lowe:And it's almost like they're, they're too corrupted one way or the other.
Taylor Lowe:You know what I mean?
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:Um, it is the way I felt like the, the, the motivations and the intentions.
Taylor Lowe:To, to actually enact, you know, a, a pol like not maybe a policy, whatever it is.
Taylor Lowe:Right.
Taylor Lowe:Whatever's gonna come outta the coalition.
Taylor Lowe:There's, there's gonna be other motivations behind a politician, I feel.
Taylor Lowe:And so that's why I had to cross them off my list, even if they have the best of intentions.
Taylor Lowe:I just, the fact that you're on, someone's gonna say, I don't like that.
Taylor Lowe:I don't like him or her or that person.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:And it's going to, I don't know that that's kind of where I landed.
Taylor Lowe:I just, I couldn't really feel they would bring their authentic, altruistic self to the table.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Brett Hale:That makes sense.
Brett Hale:Call it the mc hammer rule.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Can't trust us.
Brett Hale:Yep.
Brett Hale:All right.
Taylor Lowe:I saw exactly where you're going.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah, that's exactly it.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah, Ben.
Taylor Lowe:Okay.
Taylor Lowe:What,
Brett Hale:what
Taylor Lowe:you got going on?
Ben Glathar:Um, I love your list and I feel like there was a lot of good thought there.
Ben Glathar:Um, I put a lot of thought into mine, but mine is definitely a little bit more lighthearted than you were.
Ben Glathar:This,
Taylor Lowe:I've had a lot of time on my hands recently, so No, no, no, you're good.
Taylor Lowe:You're good.
Ben Glathar:And but, but actually it all ties in together.
Ben Glathar:So what, what's funny is my, my very first person that I would put on the list, um, I was trying to think of the most universally accepted artist.
Ben Glathar:Ah, and I did all modern day stuff.
Ben Glathar:So I came up with Taylor Swift, nice.
Ben Glathar:Swift, and, and this is kind of funny, but I was like, man, like she writes her own music, this and that, and I, and
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:Like, I, I don't think, you know, it's not like, you know, one group likes her or hates her or whatever.
Ben Glathar:I, I think she's univer and, and I think she's very talented and stuff.
Ben Glathar:So I really wanted a artist on the board to be able to give their input about ai.
Ben Glathar:Right?
Ben Glathar:Love that I, and.
Ben Glathar:You get in the weeds, but you know, she's, she's just a, an artist there, um, you know, a next person that goes against your grain.
Ben Glathar:But man, I, I definitely, um, I think there has to be somebody like this on the board is, uh, Jamie Diamond.
Ben Glathar:Mm.
Ben Glathar:Who is a JP Morgan Chase ceo.
Ben Glathar:Yep.
Ben Glathar:And, you know, like him or not, he, um, has done a good job of, you know, leading a, a probably one of the world's largest financial institutions.
Ben Glathar:And, and one of the things that I really like about him is he kind of speaks his mind.
Ben Glathar:And like, I've heard him like, talk out about like cryptocurrency and some of those things and, you know, kind of be like, you know, this isn't real.
Ben Glathar:Like, let's talk about real things.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:So I, I think you, you know, to, to have somebody from, from that input, I, he, the, my next person on my list was somebody.
Ben Glathar:That actually is to help, um, keep it in line.
Ben Glathar:And so Uhoh, I, uh, yeah, no.
Ben Glathar:Well, Hulk Hogan.
Ben Glathar:Yeah, but you, you've gotta, you've gotta follow with me here, here.
Ben Glathar:So, so, uh, Mars Pet Food Alright.
Ben Glathar:Is the largest pet food company in the world.
Ben Glathar:Okay?
Ben Glathar:And so, one of the things that scares me a lot about AI is that we will treat ai.
Ben Glathar:Due to ai, what a lot of times we do to our pets Hmm.
Ben Glathar:And our to, you know, so we will, you know, we, we'd look at our pets or something, right?
Ben Glathar:And we would say, oh, you know, there, our, our dog is hungry, or it's this or that, that, those are easy things, right?
Ben Glathar:You know, you, you take it out, but then all of a sudden you start putting, um, you know, you start putting human emotions on them.
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:Or we put human emotions on our things and, and, you know, and, and Hect Taylor even brought this up.
Ben Glathar:Like, start trusting the bot.
Ben Glathar:Well, you know, it's, it's really just giving you information, right?
Ben Glathar:Mm-hmm.
Ben Glathar:And so, you know, I am very confident that all these pet food people, all they do is try to make us think that our pets are people.
Ben Glathar:Hmm.
Ben Glathar:And that we have to spend, you know, so I.
Ben Glathar:Kind of a funny way to look at it.
Ben Glathar:So I, I want to, you know, I love this.
Brett Hale:I like this just we have, you're saying pet food people, it's like the new category
Ben Glathar:of Well, you and, and I came up with that from like, you know, you think about how much money we spend on our pets every year.
Ben Glathar:Yeah.
Ben Glathar:And, and where that's gone, and how that market has just grown because we have, you know, put, put all this on our, our animals.
Ben Glathar:So that was, that was my, uh, third
Taylor Lowe:person shout out to all the pet food people listeners out there.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Taylor Lowe:We need
Ben Glathar:you.
Ben Glathar:I know.
Ben Glathar:Well, and, and just to, and, and maybe say like, Hey guys, like, let's not, you know, let's not humanize this too much.
Ben Glathar:And then my last person, um, and, and I don't know, Uh, I would like a, um, you know, a, a spiritual person involved,
Ben Glathar:Like, I don't know how to bring in somebody that, um, that kind of oversee, you know, that, that, that is able to, to bring in something.
Ben Glathar:You know, I, I don't want to just, you know, um, I, I don't wanna just say, Hey, a, a a, a religious leader from here, or a, you know, or, or, or even a, a
Ben Glathar:But I definitely think that if you're going to have a coalition that's going to talk about ai, then I would want somebody to
Ben Glathar:To, to say that, Hey, there, there is more here than just.
Ben Glathar:You know, zeros and ones that we're programming we're going to be affecting people's lives,
Brett Hale:so that's awesome.
Brett Hale:Yeah, totally got some things that I missed on here.
Brett Hale:I love the spiritual angle, um, in Taylor.
Brett Hale:Like the diversity thing I think is, is important.
Brett Hale:Um, for sure.
Brett Hale:Um, my list, so you're gonna love this.
Brett Hale:Okay.
Brett Hale:Dr.
Brett Hale:Zuc?
Brett Hale:Yep.
Brett Hale:First on the list.
Brett Hale:Yep.
Brett Hale:I think that's a shoe win.
Brett Hale:Global, global economics, uh, professor.
Brett Hale:Um, yeah, same reasons.
Brett Hale:I, I just wanted somebody that could represent the financial side on a, on a global scale.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Um, and think about this from different angles and I, I felt like he brought a real, uh, non-political skewed, um, opinion.
Brett Hale:Um, that was based on a lot of objectivity.
Brett Hale:So I totally, it's one of the reasons I loved him.
Brett Hale:Um, yeah, so my second person that I, that I brought in, you know, um, they're, they're dead.
Brett Hale:So that, that's my twist right now.
Brett Hale:It's gonna be tough to
Taylor Lowe:get that one on, but, okay.
Brett Hale:And, you know, this was also influenced by, um, our, our nba, or specifically our trip to South Africa, but Nelson Mandela's coming with me.
Brett Hale:Yep, yep.
Brett Hale:Um, and the reason I chose him were, were a lot of reasons, but he just faced so much adversity.
Brett Hale:Uh, he, he was committed to the vision of, of changing society.
Brett Hale:Um, but more than anything, like, uh, I don't know in history if we've ever seen like two sides that were so opposed, have to come together so quickly mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:In apartheid.
Brett Hale:I mean, not that it's in the best shape today, but that's an incredible feat.
Brett Hale:Um, and so, I'm also thinking he was in prison for 27 years.
Brett Hale:Yep.
Brett Hale:So, yep.
Brett Hale:Uh, if this is a long fight Yep.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:He knows.
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:He's gonna cut you if stuff goes wrong.
Taylor Lowe:He almost made my list and I, I thought hard about the no politicians rule.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Taylor Lowe:And he was the one that gave you the most consternation, so I love that pick.
Taylor Lowe:Yeah.
Brett Hale:Uh, third, and going against the, uh, mc hammer rule here is, uh, I chose, I wanted a politician.
Brett Hale:I didn't really look at Nelson Mandela as one, uh, necessarily, but, uh, I.
Brett Hale:I, I wanted somebody that would have global connections mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:To, to open doors.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:And that is strictly the role that I wanted them to play.
Brett Hale:Um, you know, I, I think to, to make this work, you're gonna have to, to get through some power dynamics that exist out there.
Brett Hale:That's fair.
Brett Hale:Um, I, I, it was really hard for me to narrow this one down, but I, I was going US presidents, and really the only one I think I can
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Uh, he's, he had charisma in the role.
Brett Hale:Um, and so that, that's why I went with him.
Brett Hale:Mm-hmm.
Brett Hale:Um, and then the last one that I have only had four was, um, and this is, this is kind of more of a theme than anything, but I wanted somebody that
Brett Hale:Yeah.
Brett Hale:And so Dana Boyd and, and I believe she works with Microsoft a bit now as a consultant.
Brett Hale:Um, but she started a company, um, that was, uh, called Data in Society.
Brett Hale:She has this listed on her LinkedIn profile quote, recognizing the need to better understand how data-driven
Brett Hale:She founded the Research Institute.
Brett Hale:Mm.
Brett Hale:Um, so, uh, I thought that was a, a good choice to, to represent that world.
Brett Hale:And I, I, I was thinking, I almost steered away from any technical person.
Brett Hale:Hmm.
Brett Hale:Together, and, and I brought her in just from the data and society perspective when, when I came across her profile.
Brett Hale:But, but the reason being is I wanted these people to not be solving a technical problem.
Brett Hale:Right.
Brett Hale:And I think a lot of the people out there in the tech space right now are too focused on technology and less about the social aspect of things.
Brett Hale:So I figured my crew's gonna go out there and they should be very strong at finding the ES experts that they need to make decisions.
Brett Hale:That's fair.
Brett Hale:And pulling that information together.
Brett Hale:So, uh, that's my coalition.
Brett Hale:Let's go.
Brett Hale:Hey, thanks for joining us again.
Brett Hale:Subscribe to the show.
Brett Hale:If you like what you hear.
Brett Hale:Leave us feedback at boardroom fm.
Brett Hale:Otherwise, have a great rest of your day.
Brett Hale:Take care folks.